[162] H 3.
Interrogatories propounded to David Kyle, by B. Homans and J. H Butler, commissioners appointed to investigate complaints alleged against the navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto, as well as to interrogatories by George Loyall, Esq., navy agent.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. In what line of business are you engaged in this place?
Answer. I have been engaged in selling dry goods, for the last eight or nine years.
Question. What was the value, during the year 1840, of flannel, such as the samples now shown to you, by the bale, by the piece, and at retail?
Answer. From 35 to 40 cents per yard, by the piece. The difference in price by the piece or by the bale is not great. At retail, I should say it was not worth more than 40 cents. If the flannel were 29 inches wide, it would be worth 45 cents by the piece, and 50 cents by retail.
Question. What is the value of fearnought, such as the sample now shown to you, by piece and at retail?
Answer. The article before me I should think to be worth from 75 to 87-1/2 cents per yard by the piece, and one dollar by retail, though I should consider that a high price.
Question. What are the ranges in price of green baize?
Answer. There is a great difference in the price of baize. Some which is used for flooring cloth will bring 95 cents per yard at retail; and there is some which can be bought at 35 cents. It can be found at all prices from 37-1/2 to 95 cents per yard.
INTERROGATORIES BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. Do you know the use made of flannel, baize, and fearnought, in the navy?
Answer. I do not.
Question. Do you speak of these articles only as they are usually sold by retail merchants, for common use?
Answer. I do.
Question. Is the flannel you have been in the habit of selling made wholly of wool, or has it any mixture of cotton?
Answer. I have been in the habit of selling both kinds.
Question. Have you sold flannel of all colors, and are they of the same width and thickness?
Answer. I have sold red, green, white, and yellow; in width and thickness they differ materially.
Question. Have you ever sold such flannel or fearnought as that before you, by the bale?
Answer. I have not.
INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. Have you ever purchased flannel or fearnought by the bale?
Answer. Flannel, frequently.
[163] Question. When flannel has a mixture of cotton in it, is it difficult to detect the mixture?
Answer. I have always thought not.
DAVID KYLE.
NORFOLK, July 3, 1841.
Interrogatories propounded to John A. Mackinder, by B. Homans and J. H. Butler, commissioners appointed to investigate complaints alleged against the navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto, as well as to interrogatories by George Loyall, Esq., navy agent.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. What was the value, during the year 1840, of flannel, such as the samples now shown to you, by the bale, by the piece, and by retail?
Answer. At retail, 37-1/2 cents; by the piece, from 30 to 33 cents.
Question. What is the value of fearnought, such as the sample now shown to you, by the piece and at retail?
Answer. We have been in the habit of selling fearnought of this quality at 75 cents per yard by the piece, and by retail at from 87-1/2 to 100 cents.
Question. What are the ranges in price of green baize?
Answer. There are various kinds and widths of baize. The booking baize, (which is the best,) 1-1/4 yards wide, is worth $1 by retail, and about 80 to 87-1/2 cents by the piece. There are thinner kinds, yard wide, which vary from 62-1/2 to 75 cents at retail, and from 50 to 6O cents by the piece.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. How long have you been in the dry goods business in Norfolk?
Answer. Nearly two years.
Question. Are you well acquainted with the particular kind of flannel required for the ordnance service?
Answer. No. I have never sold any, that I know of, for that purpose.
Question. Then you do not know whether it is always of one width, or made entirely of wool, or with any mixture of cotton in it?
Answer. I do not.
JNO. A. MACKINDER.
NORFOLK, July 2, 1841.
Interrogatories propounded to John A. Mackinder, examined on behalf of
George Loyall, Esq., navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto.TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. When you examined the flannel now shown to you, did you state the price of it under the belief that it was not 26 inches, or over?
Answer. When I valued the flannel, I supposed it was not quite 3/4 yard wide.
Question. What would the price of such flannel be, if 27 inches wide? if 28 inches, and if 29 inches?
Answer. Four cents per yard more for each inch over 26 at wholesale, and 5 cents per yard at retail.
[164] Question. Did Captain Capron give you a sample of flannel to be sent to Mr. Cole, who was purchasing goods for you at the north, and did he obtain any of the quality required?
Answer. He did give me a sample, and I sent it on. We received two bales, and it did not answer.
Question. What do you consider a fair price for flannel over 27 inches, delivered at the navy yard at your risk and expense, by the piece or smaller quantity?
Answer. If 28 inches, 42 to 45 cents by the piece, 50 cents at retail; if 29 inches, 47 to 50 cents by the piece, 56-1/4 cents at retail.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. At what time was the sample of flannel given to you by Captain Capron? was the quality inferior, equal, or superior, to the sample before you, and what was the width?
Answer. In February or March of this year. I cannot recollect the quality or the width. Captain Capron informed me that he wanted it for cylinders, and that it must not be less than 27 inches.
Question. What do you consider the value of flannel like the sample before you by the bale, of 27, 28, and 29 inches width, deliverable at the navy yard?
Answer. If 27 inches, about 35 cents; 28 inches, 40 cents; and 29 inches, 45 cents per yard.
JOHN A. MACKINDER.
NORFOLK, July 24, 1841.
Sworn to before me, this 27th day of July, 1841.
CHARLES H. SHIELD.
Interrogatories propounded to O. W. Edwards, examined on behalf of
George Loyall, Esq., navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto.TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. Will you examine the samples of flannel before you, and say what it is worth by the yard, 27 inches wide, three different colors, deliverable at the navy yard, during the year 1840?
Answer. By the piece, 45 cents; at retail, 50 cents.
Question. What would have been the price had the flannel been 28 or 29 inches?
Answer. In all wool flannels, the difference between 27 and 29 inches would be from 3 to 4 cents per yard; it seldom comes of 28 inches.
TO INTERROGATORY BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. What was the value, in 1840, of flannel like the samples, by the bale, if 27 inches and 29 inches wide?
Answer. If 27 inches, I think they could have been bought perhaps for 34 or 35 cents; if 29 inches, perhaps 38 or 39 cents, from the manufacturers or their agents.
NORFOLK, July 24, 1841.
Sworn to before me, this 27th day of July, 1841.
WM. G. CAMP, Alderman.
[165] Interrogatories propounded to George Marshall, gunner United States navy,
examined on behalf of George Loyall, Esq., navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto.TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. Is this a fair sample of the fearnought usually furnished the navy yard; and are you not in the habit of receiving a different and a better article?
Answer. I furnished this sample, and it is a fair specimen of what I had at the time; it answers very well for some purposes; but I have received a better article, of a drab color, which is used for lining the ports.
Question. Is this a fair sample of the flannel usually furnished for the navy yard; and are you not in the habit of receiving it of a greater width?
Answer. Yes, it is a fair sample. All my requisitions, that I have made, express that it shall be three-quarters wide. I have sometimes received it 28 and 29 inches, but when it is over three-quarters it is received; if less than three-quarters, it does not answer, and I have frequently returned it.
Question. If there is any mixture of cotton in the flannel, do you receive it, upon any terms?
Answer. No.
Question. What kind of marline and hawseline are you in the habit of using; and have you not frequently sent it back to Norfolk, on account of its size and quality?
Answer. When I make a requisition for marline or hawseline, I always express it "for the best white." I sometimes want it small, and sometimes large, and I so state it, and send a sample of the size. If it is not furnished of the proper size or quality, I send it back, and have frequently done so.
Question. Do you think the kind usually sold for the merchant service would answer for your department?
Answer. With the merchant service, I am not very well acquainted; but, as far as I have seen it in the ship chandlers' stores in the United States, it is in small skeins of about four ounces, which will not answer for our purposes, because we generally get it in large coils of 50 to 100 pounds, and sometimes more.
Question. Do you consider 50 cents a yard for the best quality of flannel you require, as too high a price?
Answer. I cannot say, as I do not purchase the article for the naval service. What I require for my own use is an entirely different article.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. Do you know by whom the fearnought and flannel, such as. the samples before you, have been usually furnished for the naval service?
Answer. Mr. Capron has usually sent the flannel; I know it, because I have sometimes had occasion to send it back to him. Who furnished the fearnought I do not know.
Question. Do you know the value of fearnought, or flannel, such as the samples?
Answer. No.
Question. How large a portion of flannel of a greater width, or fearnought of a drab color, have you received?
[166] Answer. I cannot remember.
Question. Do you know what description of green baize is used for naval purposes?
Answer. I do not; it is not used in my department, but required by gunners of ships for sea stores.
Question. Is the marline and hawseline found in ship chandlers' stores not suited for naval purposes on account of its quality, or only because it is put up in small skeins?
Answer. It is only on account of its being in small skeins that it will not answer for naval purposes in my department.
GEORGE MARSHALL.
NORFOLK, July 22, 1841.
Sworn to before me, this 26th day of July, 1841.
JOHN NASH, J. P.
* * * * * *
H4.
Answer of R. H. Cutherell, examined on his complaint against the navy agent,
and his chief clerk, Richard Gatewood.TO INTERROGATORY BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. Will you be pleased to state what you know respecting the proposals or offers for supplying fresh beef and vegetables for the Norfolk station, during the year 1841?
Answer. Having seen a notice in the Norfolk papers, that proposals for supplying fresh beef and vegetables for this station, for 1841, would be received at the navy agent's office until 12 o'clock of the 15th of December, 1840, I called at the office a little before 12 o'clock, of that day, handed in my proposals, and inquired of Mr. Gatewood, the chief clerk, when the result would be known; to which he replied, "not until to-morrow." I called accordingly the next day at the navy agent's office, in company with Mr. Lemuel Goodson, and asked Mr. Gatewood who had the contract; his reply was, Mr. Ward has it, as his bid was five cents in the hundred pounds less than yours. I asked for permission to examine the bids; Mr. Gatewood took out three from a pigeon hole, held them in his hand, but refused twice to let me see them: he then laid them on the desk. I took up Mr. Ward's, when Mr. Gatewood remarked that "it was not customary to allow the papers in the office to be examined, " and said he would show it to me. He folded Mr. Ward's bid in such a way as to show me only one or two lines, containing in figures 6.45. I drew Mr. Goodson's attention to the figures, which were then covered with sand, and written in a different hand, or at a different time, from the body of the bid, and observed, "I am perfectly satisfied. I shall see the commodore, and ask him to withhold his approval of the contract." I accordingly waited on Commodore Shubrick the same day, but he was not in his office. I saw Captain Page, and Stated the circumstances to him, when he promised to make them known to the commodore. The following day (the seventeenth) I called on Mr. Loyall, when he advised me to see Mr. Ward, and ascertain from him [167] whether that was his original bid. I did see Mr. Ward on the subject, and he made some explanation of the matter. I would here remark, that in coming out of the agent's office on the sixteenth of December, in company with Mr. Goodson, I met Mr. Loyall at a short distance, stated to him what had occurred, and asked if it was not proper to allow bidders to examine the proposals; to which he replied, that it certainly was. I would further state, that although Mr. Gatewood told me that the result of the bids would not be made known until the next day, (that is, the sixteenth,) yet it was known and mentioned to me in the Portsmouth market before sunrise on the morning of the sixteenth, that Mr. Ward had the contract, and the price. I made a written complaint to the Board of Navy Commissioners of the manner in which the contract was awarded, and have received a copy of the correspondence which ensued between the Board and Mr. Loyall. Among the documents transmitted to the Board is a letter from Mr. Gatewood to the navy agent, which I characterize as a tissue of falsehoods, upon every material point. There is also a copy of a letter dated the twenty-eighth of December, from Mr. Ward to Mr. Gatewood, in which he says: "no blank was left to fill up, because I had made up my mind two weeks before to offer at $6.45." I heard Mr. Ward say that he filled up the blank himself, in the market house, on the same day or the day before the offers were to have been handed in. I refer to Mr. Lemuel Goodson, to corroborate what I have here stated, and request that he may be examined on the subject.
In a conversation with Mr. George Watts, we remarked that the contracts for fresh beef had not been advertised for a year or two past, and we thought it was wrong. At the request of Mr. Watts, I wrote a letter in November, 1840, for Mr. Nathaniel Edwards, to which I signed Mr. Edwards's name, to the Navy Commissioners, stating the omission, and shortly afterwards an advertisement appeared, inviting proposals for 1841. I refer to the certificate of T. G. Broughton & Son, to prove that the navy agent is not charged on the books of the Herald office with any advertisement for proposals for beef during the years 1838 or 1839.
TO INTERROGATORY BY MR. GATEWOOD.
Question. You have stated that you heard, in the Portsmouth market, on the morning of the sixteenth of December, that Mr, Ward had the contract, and the price; will you name the person who told you so; and did he say how he obtained that information?
Answer. Mr. Goodson informed me that Mr. Ward's man had stated to him that his master had the contract at $6.45.
R. H. CUTHERELL.
NORFOLK, July 1, 1841.
Interrogatory propounded to Lemuel Goodson, by B. Homans and J. H. Butler,
commissioners appointed to investigate complaints alleged against the navy agent,
Norfolk, and his answer thereto.Question. Will you be pleased to state what you know respecting an interview which took place, in your presence, between Mr. R. H. Cutherell, of Portsmouth, and Mr. R. Gatewood, at the navy agent's office, in Norfolk?
[168] Answer. On the day after the time fixed by advertisement for handing in proposals for fresh beef for the Norfolk station for the year 1841, I came over to Norfolk, from Portsmouth, in the same boat with Mr. Cutherell, who asked me to go with him to the agent's office, to ascertain who had got the contract. I went with him; and, on reaching the office, Mr. Cutherell inquired of Mr. West, one of the clerks, who had got the contract. Mr. West referred him to Mr. Gatewood, the gentleman now present, for information; and Mr. Cutherell then addressed himself to Mr. Gatewood, who replied that Mr. Ward had it. Mr. Cutherell then asked to see the proposals. Mr. Gatewood replied that it was not customary to show papers in the office, and at the same time took down three papers, which he laid upon the desk. Mr. Cutherell picked them up, when Mr. Gatewood snatched them from him, and said he would show them. He turned down. Mr. Ward's proposal, without exhibiting the whole of it, so as to show the figures 6.45, which were covered with sand, and written with entirely different ink from the body of the offer. Mr. Cutherell remarked, "I am satisfied, and will go and see the commodore." Mr. Cutherell and myself then left the office together, and at a short distance we met Mr. Loyall, when Mr. Cutherell inquired of him if it was not customary to show the papers in his office: and Mr. Loyall replied that it was. The next day after, Mr. Cutherell asked me to accompany him again to the agent's office; and I did so. Mr. Cutherell repeated what had occurred in the office the day previous, when Mr. Loyall said he would see into it, and requested Mr. Cutherell to see him again before he went any further. Mr. Cutherell went on to speak of the manner in which beef had been supplied, and that, for three years, no proposals had been advertised for. Mr. Loyall replied that Mr. Ward had obtained the contract for a previous, year; and, as he had then lost money by it, and no one else seemed to wish, for it, it had been continued to him. To which I remarked, that I had conversed on the subject with Colonel Watts, who was as old a butcher as any in the place, and Colonel Watts had said to me, that beef had been worth on the hoof not more than $7, and no one could lose money by a contract at $8.65. Mr. Loyall referred us to Mr. Ward, who, he said, would satisfy us as to the manner in which the figures in his bid came to be filled u with different ink. Mr. Cutherell, Mr. Gatewood, and myself, went to Mr. Ward's; and he (Mr. Ward) stated that his proposals had been written at his house, and the figures filled up in the market-house, on the morning of the day on which the proposals were handed in. Mr. Ward observed that the reason why he did not fill up the figures at his house was, that he wished to see Colonel Watts first. Mr. Cutherell asked Mr. Gatewood why he had snatched the papers out of his hand; when Mr. Gatewood replied that he did not snatch them, he merely took them out of his hand. Mr. Cutherell said he might call it what he pleased— snatching or taking—but he would not let him see them.
LEMUEL GOODS0N, his + mark.
Witness: J. A. Hazard PEARCE.
NORFOLK, July 7,1841.
COUNTY OF NORFOLK, State of Virginia, sct:
I, John Nash, a justice of the peace in and for the county of Norfolk aforesaid, in the State of Virginia, do hereby certify that Lemuel Goodson [169] this day personally appeared before me, in my said county, and made oath, in due form of law, that the answers given to the interrogatories propounded to him, as contained on this sheet of paper, are true and correct. In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and seal, this tenth, day of July, one thousand eight hundred and forty-one.
JOHN NASH, J. P. [SEAL.]
Interrogatories propounded to William Ward, examined on behalf of George Loyally Esq., navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. GATEWOOD.
Question. Is the paper now shown to you the original offer made by you to the navy agent, on the 15th December, for fresh beef and vegetables?
Answer. It is.
Question. Is every word, letter, and figure, in said offer, in your own, handwriting?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Was the price at which you offered written by yourself before handing in your offer, or was it left blank, to be filled up afterwards?
Answer. It was written before, and no blank left.
Question. Is this the same paper which you showed to Mr. Cutherell and Mr. Goodson, in my presence, and declared to be your offer?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Did you receive the slightest hint from me, or from any body in the office, of the price offered by other persons, before the time for opening the offers?
Answer. No.
Question. When you called the next day after they were opened, did I not express my surprise that you had offered so low, and say that you had better let Cutherell have the contract?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Did you not say that the reason you offered so low was, that you knew, some time before, some person in Portsmouth intended to offer at 65 cents per pound, for the contract, and that you did not intend to be beat off by him and others concerned with him?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Mr. Goodson says he heard your negro man say, in Portsmouth, by sunrise in the morning after the offers were opened, that you had the contract, and named the price, and that he told Mr. Cutherell of it. Did you know it yourself at that time; and is it possible your man should have known any thing about it?
Answer. I did not know it myself, nor could my negro man have known any thing about it.
Question. Mr. Cutherell says, in his letter to the Navy Commissioners, that you supplied this station, for several years back, at $8.65, for which no proposals were given out. Will you examine this paper, and say if it is not your original offer for the contract for the year 1837, with the advertisement annexed, inviting proposals for beef and vegetables?
Answer. Yes; it is my original offer.
[170] Question. What prices did you get for beef for foreign national vessels, during the year 1838 : also, in 1839?
Answer. For the British man-of-war Pearl, Lord Paget, I got 12-1/2 cents per pound for beef, without vegetables, in 1838; for the French ships Herculesand Favorite, I got 8-1/2 cents per pound for beef, without vegetables, in 1838. In 1839, I supplied H. B. M. man-of-war Ringdove with beef at 13 cents per pound; likewise the French men-of-war Meteor at 11 cents, and the Orestes and Sabine at 9 cents per pound.
Question. What was the price for beef, in 1840, supplied to merchant vessels?
Answer. I supplied it at from 7 to 10 cents. Merchant vessels take coarser pieces than the naval service, and it is delivered at the market-house.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY THE COMMISSIONERS.
Question. Did you ever communicate to any one the price at which you offered or intended to offer to supply fresh beef and vegetables for the naval service, for the year 1841?
Answer. No.
Question. When and by whom were you first informed that you had the contract for 1841?
Answer. Not until the forenoon of the 16th, when on my way home from market; and I believe by Mr. Gatewood.
Question. By whom is the advertisement, inviting proposals for beef and vegetables for the year 1837, signed?
Answer. By Mr. Legrand, who was then the navy agent.
WM. WARD.
NORFOLK, July 26, 1841.
Sworn to before me, this 27th day of July, 1841.
CHAS. H. SHIELD, Alderman.
TO ADDITIONAL INTERROGATORY BY MR. LOYALL.
Question. To what political party do you belong? Answer. I have always voted with the whig party.
NORFOLK, July 27,1841.
Sworn to before me, this 27th day of July, 1841.
CHAS. H. SHIELD, Alderman.
Interrogatories propounded to William Langan, examined on behalf of George Loyall, Esq., navy agent, Norfolk, and his answers thereto.
TO INTERROGATORIES BY MR. GATEWOOD.
Question. When the contract for beef and vegetables for the naval service was about to be made, in December last, did you not inform Mr. Ward that you understood some person in Portsmouth intended to offer at 6-1/2 cents per pound?
Answer. I did.
Question. Do you know whether any one else, besides yourself, had heard the same report?
[171] Answer. I heard Mr. James Smiley, tallow chandler, make a similar remark.
Question. Do you know the man who gave the information, and did he say who was to make the offer?
Answer. His name is Morris, he keeps a stall next to Cutherell, in the Portsmouth market; and I heard him make the remark in Mr. Smiley's store, that Cutherell and Goodson were to make the offer.
WILLIAM LANGAN, his + mark.
Witness: J. A. HAZARD PEARCE.
NORFOLK, July 26, 1841.
Sworn to before me, this 27th day of July, 1841.
CHAS. H. SHIELD, Alderman.
The complaint of Mr. Cutherell, in relation to my agency in the contract for beef and vegetables for the year 1841 having been thoroughly investigated by the Navy Commissioners, and decided against Mr. Cutherell, I do not deem it necessary to reply to the testimony he has given before Messrs. Commissioners Homans and Butler, in detail; nor, indeed, would I notice it at all, but for the offensive declaration he has made, and placed upon the record of the commissioners, that "my statement of the transaction, made to the Navy Commissioners, is characterized by a tissue of falsehoods upon every material point."
Without condescending to imitate the gross and vulgar epithets of Mr. Cutherell, I fearlessly reiterate the truth of the statement made to the commissioners, which is corroborated in every particular by the foregoing statements of Mr. Ward and Wm. Langan, who have conclusively proved that the declaration of Mr. Cutherell is unsupported by a particle of evidence, and could not have been uttered by a man having the least regard for truth, honor, or honesty.
RD. GATEWOOD.
Sworn to before me, 27th July, 1841.
G. B. COOKE, Alderman of Norfolk borough.
